En litt annerledes julehistorie (Ikke for sarte sjeler, eller svært religiøse). Bare en liten ting jeg MEKKA (pun intended) sammen :D

Det skjedde i de dager at det ble sendt ut et bud om at hele verden skulle innskrives i Manndal. Det var befalet som hadde sendt ut dette budet, og dermed så måtte hele gardetroppen masjere dit. Da de kom til Manndal stoppet de ved en stall der det lå et lite barn innsvøpet i en krybbe. Barnets navn var Mohammed. Litt senere kom så tre over gjennomsnittet intelligente menn og ga barnet tre vakre gaver: En Koran, En AK47 og en håndgranat. Disse gavene skulle brukes i den hellige krigen som kalles Jihad, og gutten vokste opp til å bli en stor kriger som kjempet for den rette sak. En dag da han skulle ut i krig fikk han beskjed om at denne dagen skulle bli hans siste, men, han fikk lovnad om 72 vakre jomfruer da han kom til paradis. Det gikk som det gikk og Mohammed døde i krigen. Da han kom til paradis ble han sjokkert, for de 72 jomfruene var ikke kvinner, men menn! Mer presisert skandinaviske vikinger, og de hadde ikke fått seg noe på flere århundrer! Paradiset Mohammed kom til var heller ikke Allahs Paradis, men Valhall. Der ble han så tvunget til å spise svin fra Særimne og drikke enorme mengder mjød. Så levde han ulykkelig i alle sine dager.

!Spoiler Alert! "Controversial" opinion!!!

Anti-heroes for a non-heroic era or how a church-burning murder changed the world with his music

We are living in a non-heroic era where we have a desperate need to learn about heroism. Unfortunately we make a lot of “idiots” heroes in our desperate attempt to see a little heroism. Histories about great personalities gives us life, they inspire us and teaches us about morals and duties. But some of these so-called heroes are not real heroes; they are hateful but glorified people who only spread hate. Unfortunately a lot of people interpret this hate as a love for their own “race”, when it simply is racism.

You may wonder why I choose to write about such an infamous person as Vikernes, who has done so many bad things, but he has surely made a lot of people think about their heritage in addition to shook a lot of people’s faith. Varg Vikernes was one of the most omnipresent characters in the early black metal scene, and he was and inspiration for many other teenagers to start their own band and get involved in this type of music. Even though his methods of “recruiting” people into the black metal scene aren’t very acceptable (for example church burnings and extremely conservative and right-wing ideological-opinions). Almost all educated people and those who are up to date have heard about him, either in the news, in the newspapers or through his music project Burzum. You might also ask what he has done to change the world, and that is one of the things I’m going to write about in this article.

The reason why he has changed the world is mainly because of his extreme right wing ideology and his broadcast of the latter. I don’t think he would have changed the world so much or got so many followers if it wasn’t for the media attention he got after getting convicted of three church burnings in Norway (Åsane church, Skjold church and Holmenkollen chapel), but he still would have been known inside the black circle of black metal (an extremely secret and underground of elitist black metallers as they called themselves).

Actually a man like Vikernes can be able to change a lot of people’s in former pagan nations to regain their consciousness about their pagan roots in addition to educate them about old traditions of these old religions. His books (for example Sorcery and Religion in Ancient Scandinavia and Vargsmål) have been inter alia been translated to English and Russian, making them more accessible to people from all over the world.

Vargsmål

Not many people can change the world without a scene to broadcast their ideas on, and in most cases a dramatic thing must happen in order for their opinion to be heard, spread and broadcasted, this is no different in Vikernes’ case. Sometimes people get their ideas or actions glorified, but in most cases alike this case, the media has a responsibility to not affect young people’s mind into dangerous ideologies. In this case, the media had a great cover of the case, and headlines like “satanic church burning” and “Man killed by Swedish Satanists” filled the first pages in the most commercial newspapers in Norway at the time. The big international magazine Kerrang! also  had a case about Vikernes and the church burnings on its front page, leading to a chain of church burnings done by young copycats from all over the world. Headlines like this understandably affected many young minds in Norway too; some people copied Vikernes’ actions by burning a church and some even desecrated graves in desperate attempts to become popular in the black metal scene.

A lot of people who had never heard about black metal also started listening to this kind of music and maybe even started their own band because the great broadcasting about the black metal environment these headlines gave. Most of these people did nothing illegal to promote themselves and their bands in contrast to Vikernes who did illegal actions to promote his music project. This may not have been intentional, but it surely promoted his music on a greater scale, he even sold the first press of his first album with a lighter with a picture of burnt-down stave church on it. He had great success with promoting his music and people from all over the world listen to his music, and many of these have also adopted his ideas, for good and worse. Just one guy’s ramblings can affect a whole generation into becoming intolerant racists with no sense of compassion or understanding for other cultures than their own. You may not think that this can be the case, but just think about people like Hitler and Stalin; they also got a great number of followers despite their hateful and intolerant ideologies. Something that is very impressive with the latter is that they didn’t really have any other good charactertraits than their ability to hold moving speeches, and in this case Vikernes has a big benefit because he can also attract people with his music. During his court case in the 90’s we could also see that he was a very handsome in addition to being a very charismatic person with the ability to gain a lot of people’s attention. We didn’t see the same arrogance and pomposity in his court case last year, but he still managed to get a few supporters to show up outside the court after he wrote a post on his blog. A few other supporters would later reblog this, giving it even more attention.

We can already see an increasing number of people in Norway and the rest of the world who share stand on the right side of the political arena. I’m not saying that this necessarily has to be because of Vikernes, and this people usually aren’t very radical or extreme but it surely indicates a major change in the nation’s and the world’s mentality. I think that the world will get a big challenge in getting the courage to resist these hateful ideologies and opinions that people like Vikernes offer. We will also face a great challenge in educating our kids to become tolerant and good people who don’t easily fall into the well of the false idol of white supremacy. We have to give our youth something important and creative to believe in, not this destructive and non-including ideology.

Despite of hateful ideologies, we have to keep the right of speech as a torch throughout the world: a world where even people like Vikernes have the right to express himself without being silenced. But what can we do if cannot silence him due to the most important human right? We can come with counter reactions and teach ourselves to detect hate and propaganda when we see it. I have myself discussed with Vikernes on his blog (you can find the whole conversation in the attachment), and the reactions I got wasn’t very positive, in the end he ended up calling me “an average brainwashed Norwegian” (something that says a lot more about him than about me). I will still keep fighting against things I find unacceptable in today’s society in addition to things I find hateful. Another thing I’m going to do is to confront him face to face; hopefully I will meet him outside the court in France (he is accused for promoting hate against minorities and romanticizing war crimes after he moved to France in 2011). You may wonder why I’m going all the way to France next year only to see the court case, but I’m actually going there to attend a festival there which coincidentally takes place the day after the court case. The reason for doing this is to show the world and his supporters a counter reaction. I still support his right of free speech, but I won’t tolerate hate and complete ignorance of other people’s feelings.

Vikernes is defending his hateful opinions because he believes that Europa and the purity of the “European race” need to be saved from the Jewish people and their influence on the world. Personally I think it’s important with a little multiculturalism in order for nations and people to make strong bonds of friendship and alliance. I don’t see anything negative in migration and emigration, whether it’s from Sweden, Africa, America or Greenland. I think it only creates more possibilities and reasons to make the world as one. Some people say that it just causes more crime and violence, but if these people actually looked at the statistics they would have seen that their own people stand behind most of the crimes in their country.

Vikernes also states that our own culture will be destroyed if people with other cultures come here and influence us too much, but he also states that we have to fight for our own, strong culture. But why should we fight for a weak culture that eventually will be destroyed by a small amount of international influence? I think he didn’t think this statement thorough, since it’s pretty oxymoronic. In a very infamous interview he also states “if you want to build something new, you have to destroy the old one first”, this was also something he defended himself with after the church burnings. He actually burned the churches to avenge our forefather’s horgs (old norse worship place) who was burned by the Christians who came to Norway on the 11^th century, later they would build their churches on top of these burned-down horgs. The Christian’s actions a thousand years ago still doesn’t justify Vikernes’ actions 20 years ago, and there are many other ways to bring back the heathendom than to go to violent and destructive terms. The church burning actually served the opposite of Vikernes’ intention, and a lot of congregations got closer than ever before. As in his intention, Norway became more protective of its heritage after the church burnings, but not of the heritage he intended (the Norse heritage).

Vikernes plan of shaking them up into losing their old faith and then review their pagan roots. The churches was fortunately built up again, but 40 million kroners worth of beautiful and original architecture was lost, Vikernes has not to this day paid anything of his insurance claims.

I can’t I see why it would destroy our own already established culture if immigrants bring their culture with them, because if our culture is strong enough and good enough established it won’t be wiped out, pushed to the side or destroyed by another culture. If it unfortunately will be destroyed in the future it will just show that it weren’t good enough, and therefore it will deserve to be replaced with a new and better one. I really think it’s important for people to know about and be proud of their own culture because the culture is very important in order for people to define themselves and understand more about their history and even their future. Therefore I understand why they want to defend it by all means possible, still I don’t think that Vikernes’ fear have no relevance in reality, and there are so many other ways to be proud of and promote your own culture than to drag other’s into the dirt.

But the most important thing is what Vikernes writes on his blog: most of his posts are pure anti-Jewish propaganda with a touch of national-socialism and Scandinavian-romanticism. He writes a lot about ancient traditions of our forefathers, the right ways to praise the Old Norse gods and how to maintain the “purity” of the Scandinavian people by restricting non-Scandinavian peoples access to Scandinavia. One of the things that concern me most about this is the commentary column on the bottom of his blog: Almost every day 100-400 people comment on his posts and 99% of these commentaries are supportive of his ideology and opinions. Some people even discuss with these topics with Vikernes – something that can strengthen young and uneducated minds connection and bonds to this destructive and hostile ideology. It’s even scarier that persons that originally are very neutral in the political specter so easily can become affected by this blog that they turn into radical conservatives (in the nationalistic-socialist sense). I think most of the people that visit his blog are very insecure men in their twenties who look for a place to belong, unfortunately many of these men choose to fight instead of including people who isn’t exactly like themselves.

How the church burnings changed how the world will look at metal music, forever

The shocking church burnings in this little, peaceful land in the north would eventually get international coverage, and the papers exaggerating headlines and cases would contribute into giving black metal and metal music in general a bad reputation. Still to this day; a lot of people will not only flinch an eyebrow, but their whole head when you mention the word metal music. A lot of people will also think of the word Satan as soon as they hear the word metal, and some even say that metal is the devil’s own music. What do you think of when you hear the world black metal? Maybe you think of pale men all dressed in black, screeched vocals, drums that sound like a jackhammer or maybe even death? If you were more than 15 years old in 1990 you probably heard about one or more of these real incidents that happened in the black metal environment in the 90’s: the suicide of vocalist in the band Mayhem, The church burnings committed by various members of different black metal bands (some were even committed by people that didn’t have a band), The murder of the guitarist of Mayhem committed by Vikernes and the murder of a homosexual man in Olympic Park committed by the drummer of the band Emperor.

The reason why black metal got its reputation is not only because of the gruesome acts committed in the little black metal scene, but also the press’ wrong and exaggerated views on this small scene. There actually was no Satanists (in the old sense of the word, by that I mean theistic Satanists), but only people who praised individuality and a resistance towards the established society’s norms and way of living.

Vikernes was one of the first black metal musicians in Norway and he participated in bands like Old Funeral (which would later split up and form other successful bands like Immortal and Hades Almighty). I think that the black metal scene would be a lot smaller and have a completely different mentality if it wasn’t for Vikernes. With his one-man band Vikernes introduced new and different elements from ambient music; this later inspired other bands like Ulver.

I think Vikernes changed the world by his music, I mean, he clearly showed the world a completely new and innovative way to make music without the restraints of social norms. Nor did he care what was popular at the time, he just did what he wanted (and that is how artists are born). When you listen to his music you can almost instantly hear that you are listening to Burzum, not only by the way the guitars are distorted, the way the music is organized (many repetitive riffs are used) or the way he screams, but also by the atmosphere that the music creates. I think it’s important to keep in mind that music really can change people, but also make them dream. Another important principle here is that Vikernes never adopted any of his hateful or racist opinions into his music, making it very neutral. It’s also important to make a clear line between the person of Vikernes and his music, at least I do. Despite all of his hateful statements and opinions, I like the music, and I think it’s beautiful to make people dream and wish in a world that seems lacking with hope.

Burzum's music doesn't really sound like this to hardcore and informed fans, but to people that have never heard black metal before it does. 

Without black metal music there would be no genre of music that focus on the darker side of man, and therefore no other ways to escape for misfitted adolescents. Maybe black metal even prevented a lot of suicides and other destructive ways of expression by letting people get out their aggression and feelings through the music? But what is for sure is that black metal is a great way to release aggression and tense pain if you understand this type of music.

Vikernes surely affected a lot of youths and young adult to copy his actions in addition to “indoctrinate” them into his hateful ideology. He also shook a lot of congregations throughout the country by burning their beloved meeting places and houses of worship. He surely put a tag on himself, and most people who grew up in Norway during the 90’s know who he is, and most of these people despise his actions. If you could say that he has done something good, then it must the fact that he raised a consciousness about our old pagan religion, even though the way he achieved his goal, more or less, wasn’t the right way to do it. In the end, he has served his sentence, and is now a free man. The most important detail in this is that his sentence shows people that church burning is not tolerated in Norway. Hopefully it won’t happen again, and people will probably take other means into the light if they want to continue fighting for our old traditions and. Peaceful means gains most support, but still there will always be protagonist in our society who is willing to spread their message by violent means. Therefore it is very important that these voices also get a place in our society so we can understand what it is all about and also show a distance to such meanings.

I think it’s important to see the future of Vikernes opinions in the light of group mentality: if it weren’t for his large number of followers then he wouldn’t be able to change much in the world. Neither would he be able to spread his opinions. Therefore I must say that the future of our people and its compassion depends on our ability to take a stand against mindless rambling like Vikernes’.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. 

Sources:

Most of what I wrote are things I simply remember because I'm so interested in this subject, but if a source need to be named then it must be this book:

Anmeldelse av filmen "Kjøter"

Filmen starter med et sitat fra «Et dukkehjem» som handler om venting.

I starten av filmen får du vite at hovedpersonen i filmen drømmer om venting og mange folk som står i kø.

Da han er ute og kjører en dag kommer han over en hund som står midt i veien og spiser på et dødt dyr. Han plukker deretter opp hunden og tar den med hjem. Han introduserer hunden for kona si enda han vet at hun ikke tåler hunder (i det minste sier hun det). Han forklarer deretter kona at han skal passe på hunden for kollegaen sin (selv om han egentlig fant hunden på veien). Han forteller også at kollegaen han passer hunden for har problemer med kona, men etter hvert finner vi ut at dette også passer til hovedpersonen i filmen. Egentlig dreier dette seg om en maktkamp i forholdet, der mannen vil være herren i huset, noe han aldri vil bli.

En ting jeg legger veldig godt merke til er at hele filmen er i svart-hvitt. Jeg tror dette er for å uttrykke den dystre stemningen som går igjen i hele filmen. De eneste gangene filmen ikke er i svart-hvitt er da han drømmer, noe som symboliserer at virkeligheten han lever i er grå og trist, og etter hvert begynner også drømmene hans å bli grå og triste. Det er heller ikke mye bakgrunnsmusikk, men noen trommecymbaler som slås på kan høres vagt i bakgrunnen i enkelte scener av filmen. Jeg tror regissøren har valgt dette for å uttrykke den indre uroen i forholdet.

Hunden oppfører seg ikke: den tigger ved bordet, sikler på gulvet og drikker av doskåla. Til tross for dette blir kona bare mer og mer glad i hunden, og begynner å vise omsorg for den mens forholdet mellom mannen og kona bare blir verre (noe som f.eks. vises ved at de sover lenger og lenger fra hverandre).

Mannen begynner igjen å drømme om venting og lange køer, men denne gangen stirrer alle menneskene i drømmen på ham, og en gammel dame byr fram en pose med innvoller. Da han våkner sier han til kona at han er husets herre, men egentlig så er det kona som styrer og bestemmer i huset. Da kommer hunden inn på soverommet, men kona blir lei og sier at hun ikke klarer å sove med hunden i huset, og sier dermed at mannen må levere den tilbake neste dag. Isteden foreslår han at han kan drepe den hvis hun vil. Hun spør deretter om hva han drømte da han sov, noe mannen ikke vil svare på, hun sier så at hun er lei seg for at han ikke vekker henne lenger og forteller om drømmene han har drømt (Enda en ting jeg mener symboliserer at forholdet skranter og ikke er like bra som før).

Da hun sovner igjen, sjekker han henne møysommelig med en lommelykt, for å se om hun har noen allergiske utslett, noe hun ikke har. Hun våkner plutselig brått og spør hva han holder på med, blir sur og sier at hun ikke er allergisk, men hun liker ikke hunder. Da spør mannen om det er noe mer hun ikke liker, for liksom å insinuere at han ikke føler seg så verdsatt lenger. Jeg vil si at denne scenen viser at de ikke lenger kan stole på hverandre, noe som er veldig viktig for at et forhold skal fungere.

Mannen blir sjalu fordi kona først bader hunden, koser med den og prater kjærlig til den. Jeg tror at mannen føler seg ganske sjalu og overflødig siden kona nesten ikke prater mer til ham. Han fører hunden ut i stua fordi han ikke vil at kona skal prate mer med den,  da spør kona om han ikke snart skal drepe hunden. Mannen fører deretter hunden ut i stua igjen, og da kommer kona og lager mat til hunden. Og det er ikke akkurat tørrfor hun lager til den – hunden får den lekreste stek med saus og hele pakka. Da blir mannen så sjalu at han kaster maten til hunden. Etterpå tar han bikkja med ut i skogen der han har tenkt å drepe hunden med en spade for så å begrave den. Men akkurat idet han har tenkt å slå bikkja i hjel kommer det tre andre hundeiere og spør hva som er galt med hunden. Mannen svarer at det ikke er noe galt med hunden, og at den skal være sånn. Når hundeeierene har gått slår han i hjel bikkja og begraver den.

Da han kommer hjem igjen etter å ha drept hunden drømmer han igjen en «ventedrøm» der han venter på at noe skal skje. Men denne gangen skjer det faktisk noe, han går ut av køen for så å drømme om en løpende hund. Jeg tror at denne siste drømmen symboliserer at han endelig er fri.

Jeg tror at ventedrømmene symboliserer at forholdet har stagnert, i tillegg til at forholdet har utsatt alle drømmene han har hatt i livet. Alt i alt handler filmen om et stagnert, ødelagt forhold i konstant maktkamp. Jeg tror at mannen i utgangspunktet tok hunden med hjem kun for å terge kona si. Hun sier tross alt at hun er allergisk mot hunder, men hun skjuler det så godt hun kan for å bevare sin makt og ære i forholdet. Hun får også vridd det til sin egen fordel, slik at mannen blir sjalu når hun begynner å godprate med bikkja i tillegg til å gi den en gourmetmiddag uten like.

Originaltittel: Kjøter

Regi: Marius Holst,

Forfatter: Bjørn Olaf Johannessen

Premiereår: 2006

Sjangere: Novellefilm, Drama

Skuespillere:

Kone: Hildegunn Riise

Ektemann: Bjørn Floberg

Hund: Seg selv

Nok en sangtekst - denne gangen på engelsk

A hollow past

A whole future

All those things

I once clenched to

Is dust

A new road

That opened up before me

Meaningfull

An essence of happyness

But angst

Creeping shadows

A darkened mind

A soul unable to feel

Useless

A manifestation of true anger

Silence

No wishes

Quintessence of fear

Like a seed growing without sunlight

A rotten soil

Life

Enda en sangtekst

En enkel mann mann han vandret

Gjennom gatene en kald novemberdag

Av mennesker var han omgitt 

Men han var ensom som aldri før

Han kjente kulden ise i kroppen

Kulden fra de andres sinn

Han vandret langt om lenge

Uten mål eller destinasjon

Menneskene fnyste

Han var ikke som dem

I ensomheten fant han sitt hjem

Historien den ender

Uten mening og moral

De andre blir utfrosset

Mannen vandret fortsatt

Fremover han gikk

Til hva visste han ei

Mens alle de omkring 

Sto fastfrosset på samme lei

Sangtekster

I det siste har jeg skrevet en del sangtekster, og jeg tenkte at jeg ville dele disse her på bloggen min.

Nesten ingen av sangtekstene har noen tittel, men jeg håper at noen av de som leser dette vil komme med forslag :D

Vi hørte fjerne stemmer av fortiden

Guder som lo

En dag sto de på tinget

De visste at lykkens dager var forbi

Våpen grep de om

Marsjerte ut til kamp

Den første ufred på jord

Var nå forbi

Deres uskyld var borte

Blod på tann fikk de

Efter denne feide visste de hvor det bar

Uhyggelige drømmer, svik og renkespill rådet i denne tid

Økstid, sverdtid og manns bane

Nå ventet bare den siste strid

Guden i det høye blåste i sitt horn

Innledet var nå ragnarok

Gudene vil gå helveg

Men aldri dø

De vil alltid leve i de edles hjerte

Er du et gjetord gjevt vil du alltid hugsas. 

“Skykameraten”

Jeg er ikke redd for å fortelle hvordan det egentlig er… Alt jeg vet er hva jeg ser, og jeg ser ikke noe magi. Ingenting er magisk, men det trenger heller ikke å bety at det er tragisk. Ikke la noen fortelle deg løgner, og hvis de gjør så, ikke tro på løgnene. Du kan tenke selv, hvis det virkelig fantes noe slikt som et helvete ville vi alle dratt dit.

Det finnes ingen himmel der oppe I skyene, kameraten din oppe I skyene er oppdiktet. Jeg vil ikke såre deg, men det er sannheten. Når du dør kommer du ikke til himmelen, men i et hull i jorda. Jeg vet det er vondt å høre at hele livet ditt er basert på en løgn, men jeg kan ikke unngå det når jeg hører alt det rare du tror på. Jeg hater ikke deg, men jeg hater religionen din – Som dere selv sier: Man kan hate synden men ikke synderen.

Jeg har møtt mye smerte I livet, men jeg gir ikke opp. Ei heller ser jeg opp til himmelen når jeg trenger råd og støtte, jeg leter dypt inne i meg selv eller ber andre mennesker om hjelp. Ikke broker jeg tiden min på å be når jeg er inne I vanskelige tider heller: Jeg bruker heller den dyrebare tiden  min på å ordne opp I det selv.

Jeg tror ikke på eventyr, selv om de kanskje får deg til å føle deg varm. Jeg vil si at det er nesten som å pisse i buksa – det blir varmt en liten stund, men etterpå er det bare jævlig! Det er helt vilt at vi lærer den samme løgnen til alle barn som blir født(riktignok i forskjellige former F.eks. Islam eller jødedom). Vi blir født og får et liv, men ifølge løgnen deres er ikke dette livet verdt noe. Hvorfor ikke gjøre noe mer ut av livet enn å underkaste seg en ikke-eksisterende høyere makt? Hvorfor leve som en hjernevasket slave når du kan tenke selv? Uansett så vil jeg heller råtne nede i bakken enn å tilbe en slik fryktelig ondskapsfull gud.

Selv om du går i kirken og tilber gud hver eneste søndag, så betyr ikke det at du blir et bedre menneske av den grunn. Det som gjør deg til et godt menneske er moralen din: og hvis du sier at bibelen har gitt deg moralen din, så kan du umulig ha særlig god moral. Så ikke kom her og kall meg synder kun fordi jeg ikke lever etter din 2000 år gamle ørken-moral – jeg kan tenke selv. 

Diskusjon med Varg Vikernes og "gjengen". OBS! LES DETTE INNLEGGET FØRST:http://thuleanperspective.com/2013/06/19/european-religion-versus-atheism/ (FRA VARG'S BLOGG).

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 20/06/2013 at 11:41 Reply

I strongly disagree that atheism is the same as nihilism: Nihilism is the “belief” that there is no meaning or value to life, and atheism is the belief that no deities or supernatural things exists. To some extent i can relate to the Norse Gods in some kind of personification, but I don’t believe that these gods actually exist. Does not believing in gods make me a nihilist? I find a lot of meaning in life, just looking at the beautiful nature, just thinking about what we can achieve and already have achieved makes me happy and gives me meaning in life. I believe that humans can achieve good Things, but also bad things: without the affection of gods.

Mikjáll 20/06/2013 at 12:12 Reply
Morally, nihilism and atheism are just the same. Atheism isn’t just a rejection of god(s), it’s a rejection of religions and their respective moral codes. Now, I’m not saying that all atheists are amoral, terrible people, but they follow the same “do what thou wilt” philosophy as nihilists do and construct their own moral codes and that can be very destructive and dangerous. Also, a lot of atheists are individualistic and that’s counterproductive to the tribe/society they live and work in. Not to mention most “modern” atheists are pathetic, whiny liberals.

By the way, don’t get lost in semantics. No one here believes the gods actually exist in that sense. The gods are symbolic of different forces in nature and aspects of humanity that are good and pure. There are no big, bearded men on thrones in the sky. As Kevin Sommers said (hope you don’t mind if I borrow your excellent analogy, Kevin): how do you draw honour? Well, you can’t. So you draw an image of a man acting honourably. The same logic applies to the gods; they’re symbols.

SvanfortS 20/06/2013 at 12:34 Reply
“…that can be very destructive and dangerous.” Then why is it that atheist commit less crimes than theistic persons i.e in USA atheist commit way less crimes than christians? That doesn’t only apply to USA. T

“most “modern” atheists are pathetic, whiny liberals.” Sadly this is true. This is the reason why I have distanced myself from atheism because many modern atheist – at least the militant ones – are brainwashed pussies.

Mikjáll 20/06/2013 at 13:14 Reply
Well, I’m not well-versed in U.S. crime statistics but look at it in context; a lot of blacks identify as Christian in the U.S., do they not? And I don’t need to explain to you their role in crime statistics. Besides, I wasn’t referring solely to crime. Atheism works similarly to nihilism in the sense that if gives a “mental free pass” to an encompassing degeneracy. It’s specifically designed to cultivate the ettins in man and sooner or later he will be lost to them. It can affect people surrounding the individual as well… or the mentally weak ones at least. That’s what’s destructive and dangerous about it.

Mikjáll 20/06/2013 at 13:21 Reply
And I forgot to point out; a lot of Christians are just degenerate retards as well. As I said, I’m not well-versed in U.S. crime statistics so I don’t know if there’s any sectarian violence going on over there, but there’s A LOT of it where I live. Instigated by football, no less… a testament to their stupidity and eagerness to get involved in things that ultimately don’t matter.

Ane Torine Myrhaug Bæra 20/06/2013 at 12:42 Reply
It is true that atheists follow their own morals, but isn’t that better than to follow the morals of for example the bible: å booking written almost 2000 years ago? Isn’t it better to think for yourself and find out what suits you best: whatever you choose will give consequences, both good and bad.
And yes, many atheists are liberal, which means that all people should be allowed to choose freely who they want to marry, what they want to believe et.c. I don’t see any problems with being a bit of individualistic as long as you don’t turn egoistic.

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 13:34 Reply
No, because the bible has included a lot of EUROPEAN morals in it (as explained here), and atheism is a means for the Jews to get rid of those EUROPEAN morals. They want none of that, so they created atheism and other forms of nihilism too.

People whould not at all be free to to or chose whatever they want to. read this post for more on that.

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 14:33 Reply
I think you are a bit hard on Ane Torine here. Even though there may be something called European morals, and the bible has some of that moral too, this doesn’t mean that morals are something that can be written down for a group in whole, small or big.
Nor is it something that someone, a smart/good European once invented. Instead it is in our genes. As everyone have a bit different genes, making a person an individual, so morals also is individual.

In fact moral, what feels right to do, is what serves your survival best. Like bodily traits, moral traits are also selected for by nature. And it is connected with intellectual capacities.

Odin got this, that’s why there is very little moraling in his teachings. Unlike other races moral teachings. What they lack of intellectual capacity, to analyze the world or the situation they are in, in order to survive on long or short term, the tribe compensate these faults by ruling, or commandments. A collective moral.

The reason it doesn’t feel right to kill an innocent being, is that if you do so, or try too, you may get killed or hurt instead. It is an risk/reward-assessment involved. Eventually you will be killed yourself, limiting your reproduction rate, if you “live by the sword”.

On the other hand, If you are attacked, everyone feels it is correct to fight back, and also kill if necessary. This is also what serves you best, obviously in the short run, but also inthe long run, to survive.

To better and more fully explain the relation between morals and genes, that we have morals hardcoded in our genes, and that it is about survival of the genes, lets look at defending others.
People are reluctant to get involved in other peoples/kins fights, it naturally feels best to let them fight their own battle, to stay out of it, and thereby stay safe and survive.
But, in the opposite end, defending your kids, even more than even defending your own genes or body, feels right. In fact as you allready invested a lot in the next generation of your genes, they are even more valuable then your own.

Hence, moral is ultimately a risk/reward assessment, where the genes survival, and their resemblance with your own, is the assessed. Closer kin in danger, the higher the reward, if they are saved. One will then tolerate higher risk.
If one doesn’t need risk at all, to go for the reward, one will be a risk to others, and they will get you.

The first serious blow the jotun-race dealt us, was when they by Christianity made us believe that morals is something concrete, out of a book, and not something we have to consider and find for ourselves.
Much like I believe Ane is trying to say.

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 20/06/2013 at 16:22 Reply
I actually read that article before I read this one But anyways I don’t think that stoning homosexuals, sabbat breakers and adulterers is moral. But all of these kinds of punishments is mentioned in the bible. Can you mention some of the European morals that is mentioned in the bible? I’m curious

And last I want to say that Atheism is not something that is created, at least not by Jews. Atheism is the position that every newborn baby have before they are starting to get bombarded by lies. I actually quoted you here to Anyway, I think that it’s crucially important to know about our history too, and learning where religions originated is very interesting and important to know in order to understand why we are the people that we are.

White Guard 20/06/2013 at 16:30 Reply
“I don’t think that stoning homosexuals, sabbat breakers and adulterers is moral.”

Stoning is a Jewish punishment. Also, you’ll notice most modern Jews actually promote homosexuality, breaking the sabbath and perversion, rather them condemn those practices.

White Guard 20/06/2013 at 16:45 Reply
Rather *than*

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 17:06 Reply
You shall not kill, or you should not covet your neighbours “ass”, nor his wifes ass, is good morals in the bible.
For us it who has a brain this goes without saying, even though we fail sometimes.
It’s not like I am promoting the bible, as you surely understand.

And you are right, the bible is full of a-moral. Jotun-morals, sanctioned by the jotun-God Yahweh.

In fact i am now reading Genesis.
If you are jew-wise I recommend that you read it.
If I could, I would rename it to:
The Evils guide to the World.

When Christian people actually read this book themselves, instead of going to church lying they did and nodding their heads to themis-interpretations the priest is telling, they will go heathen in a blink.

You wouldn’t believe the tricks the jews used to exploit other peoples goodness, and the emotional blackmail they seem to have invented, and survived on through millenia. It’s all there, in black and white.

Actually, you don’t have to tell me that Atheism is not created. I know. That’s why I already at the age of six, had my christian grandmother chasing me with a broom.
Unfortunately I did not have any alternative explanation, or understanding at that time.

Like I believe you do, I find our old culture compatible with modern science and reason. Dawkins (Dawkined) is a heathen, good as any. Though he may not yet even know it himself. Maybe cause he is bound by PC, and his only super-fluent knowledge of Norse Mythology.

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 17:49 Reply
So when I talk about moral and the European gods you only have examples from the bible to discuss with me?

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 20:15 Reply
This was a reply to Ane, who in her answer to me came up with a question for examples fromthe bible. At least that is what I figure, even though the thread is a bit confusing after all the comments..

No, examples from the bible is something I usually don’t refer to. There is to much evil in that book, difficult to see if you are not jew-wise. You are and I believe most of your readers is, our will be.

There are countless examples of good morals in Håvamål.
To be armed and prepared is one.
To have friends and open your mind with friends are another.
To be kind and hospital another.
To be wise, or at least try to, another.
To calm quarrels among sons of chieftains another.
I could go on by heart for pretty much all the verses.

In fact there is nothing but good morals in our old culture, unlike any other cultures/religions I, at least, know of.

However, it is not like in the four semitic religions, Judaism, Islam, Christianity and Marxism, where moral is definitive, and everywhere to everyone the same.
In Norse Mythology it is not commandments, rather advices. One don’t have to pay attention but it will do one good if one do:

Ráðumk þér, Loddfáfnir,
en þú ráð nemir, -
njóta mundu, ef þú nemr,

As for my intentions:

I may have wanted to discuss the meaning of Irminsul/mima-meidr/Yggdrasil, the tree of life, without flagging that properly.
As I instead, in the thread, may have done what somewhat seems to be trying to impose new radical ideas, of my own I admit, I understand that you may wonder what I am doing.

As you have pointed many in the right direction, me included, you should not be surprised that as more and more people walking that same path, they may pick up things that one man alone missed, walking the same path.
It is not like what I am saying is contradicting what you are saying, rather it is complementing.

When it comes to Hamingja and Fylgja and all the things you are an expert on, I admit am quite blank. I will look into it, though I believe you are right.
Personal health questions was not what brought me into studying Norse Culture, rather the sickness of the society we are living in. (Noe am I not implying that you did).

What I do, is reading the sources, and finding that what we are told is written, is completely mis-interpretated at best, or lost in translation, or corrupted, most likely:

Like the myth of Odin sacrificing one eye to get wisdom.

The truth, for everyone that looks it up themselves, is that Odin put his eye in the well, for Mimir to drink from his “eye”:

What eye that was, or if Odin has a limb with one eye, I leave up to the each and everyone to comprehend:

I (mostly, but not only) refer to Frederik Hammerichs book “Nordens Ældste dikt” of 1876, where Voluspå is the poem in question.
This book, and many more, older than 100 years books btw, are scanned by Google, and also possible to buy in printed versions from Amazon. In electronic format they are free.
As you can imagine, paying 5 $ an hour, the people operating the scanner is not the ones who grasped pagenumbers, and their meaning. Anyhow, it is not so bad, all pages are scanned, though not always in order.

How http://www.Heimskringla.no and others are missing verses, or changing the order of verses I don’t even care to wonder about:

In this old edition it is still possible to read the verses in an order that gives meaning.
22:

Ask vet jeg stande
heter Yggdrasil, højtræet,
vandet med hviden skumvand;
deden kommer dugge,
som i dale falde,
og den algørn ud over Urds væld stander.

23:
Deden komme møer
mangt vidende tre,
fra sal hin,
der ved træet stander;
Urd hde der en,
den anden Verdande
tavlen de skar i
Skuld hed den tredje:
De lov lagde
de liv kåred,
skifte, skikke tids børn skæbnen

24:
Ved hun Odins-øjet fjælet
udi hint Mimers ædle brøndvæld;
Nu sin mjød -
Mimer hver morgen drikker
af pant fra valfader,
Ved i end mer, eller hvad?

25:
Ved hun Hemdalshornet fjælet
under en himmelvant hellig stamme;
over den øses elvfos, ser hun,
af pant fra valfader.
ved i end mer, eller hvad?

The illusion we are living in is massive.
The illusions Thor was a victim of, in his visit to “Utgads-Loke, will be like peanuts in comparison to what we are exposed to.

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 20:25
Now, I risk being a bit annoying here, posting links all the time, but you can actually read about this hanging in the tree myth here.

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 21:33
You are not annoying me. I am a guest in your site.
I know that your interpretations is way more valuable than any other earlier interpretation. Still not correct.
If any is.

Maybe you are right. and I am wrong.

All I ask is for you to consider, as an authority and a pioneer, with a public, and what I see as a genuine feeling of responsibility to your kin, by reading Odins runesong, with a picture of a child in the womb on your mind. You will see it fits exactly to your idea of Irmisul as a womb.

He doesn’t remember like none of us do. He just knows, like we all do, that we hung on the winged-tree.
Like in Fjolsvinnsmål this tree is known to men only by hearsay.

He was not fed, nor served a drink. Because he didn’t need it. He was stung by the spear, his own. The umbilical cord. Gungnir, the ones who bends and curls.

He hang there piercing downwards, picking up runes, words, or the letters (ATCG to push it all the way )

Stung by a spear. The belly-bottom, or the wound the umbilical cord leaves, is the origin of this picture. When born you have a wound on the belly, from where you where stung by the “spear”, Odins weapon, the umbilical cord.

Notice this detail in the Jewish corruption of this beautiful story, in the passion of Christ, stung by a roman spear.
And the silly sponge they gave Jesus to drink from. Just to keep up with the original, and to keep him alive for 9 days as it originally also was in the gospels too.

See old poem in the end, about one stage of the melting together of the nordic natural truth, and the semittic lies:

He hung there for 9 (moon)-nights, ref: Finn/ Finnur Magnusson 1820s.

Himself given to himself, as a free man, with Odr, and body.
Or, as himself given to himself in form of what he was before he was conceived. his father and mother, a part of his father given to the mother, or a part of his mother given to his father. Still himself to himself.

****

Unless you have “attacked” or questioned me on some other comments I’ve made, I will call it a day.

After all this in nothing but my opinion You may dismantle it, if your can, our consider it.

Even Thor was fooled by the Utgards-Loke.
And if not for you, leading the way, we would never see through the illusions, or be able to pick up more and more valuable pieces of our own culture.

Nine days he hang pa de Rütless tree,
for ill wis da folk in’ Güd wis he.
A blüdy mæt wis in his side,
Made wi’ a lance, ‘at wid na hide.
Nine long nichts i’ da nippin rime,
Hang he dare wi’ his næked limb.
Some dey leuch,
Bitt idders gret.

This old verse is written down on The Faroe Island by Karl Blind (1826-1907)

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 21:39
Then let me tell you a thing my wife found out. The world tree is not THE womb, but it is located IN THE WOMB.

Try looking at this photo instead of clinging to your (very creative and intelligent) hypothesis.

This will make more sense to you when you read the future posts on atala.fr and also here.

I don’t walk alone on that path. My wife walks along with me and picks up a lot too. Possible actually more than I do…

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 22:14
This is why we should keep talking. Even though we have some a thing or two to discuss still.

I just looked at the picture, It makes me sick,and I know about it.

This is actually proof of some mistake I myself made in my interpretations of Fjolvinnsmål, whrere I said that the fruits of the tree is to be carrided to the fire, meaning that old dead people should be burnt.

I did not at that time know that the fruits of the tree is to reckoned as the afterbirth, which the jews actually calls the tree of life.

Lkke Odin says, it is to be disposed of in fire,
and even Yahweh is forbidding people to eat the fruit of the tree of life. As we know.

Guess what? Some people still do, and they want us to do the same.
What people is that?
ref. also Tom Cruise, Kim Kardashian, and Hollywood agenda in general:

I know you are not alone now, but you once was, kind of alone, from what I have seen and read. You kept strong, and grew even stronger I guess.
That’s good.

Kevin Sommers 20/06/2013 at 21:48
You could be right Ytringer. And I don’t doubt for an instant that a lot of these myths have multiple valid meanings. Even in language today are there words that have multiple meanings.

Christophe 21/06/2013 at 00:51 Reply
Sorry to answer here, but couldn’t find the ‘reply’ thing below.

“Then let me tell you a thing my wife found out. The world tree is not THE womb, but it is located IN THE WOMB.”

This interests me a lot, and I really like this analogy. Now, I know lately I stuck myself with those runes in the hexagon, and my hypotheses I come up with are probably not right:

I see this hexagon the womb, and without it, the runes (active principle) wouldn’t “live”. A bit like an egg , and if you break its shell, all the living process won’t happen.

Odin, hung to the tree of life for 9 days and 9 nights (this has for sure been spoken about a thousand times already, this possible metaphor for a mother giving birth after 9 months), etc. But here is my point (or yes, hypothesis) :

HAGAL, this representation of the tree, and “born” from the combination of MAN and YR, is INTO that womb/hexagon.

Now of course, I can be wrong..

Christophe 21/06/2013 at 00:54
EDIT: I see this hexagon AS the womb

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 17:39 Reply
So you think the babies are born before their parents? They have no blood? No pre-programmed genes? No DNA?

There was no ‘punishment’ in Ancient Europe. The word itself didn’t even exist in our vocabulary. There was only reactions and race hygiene. Our forebears too killed homosexuals, but not to punish them. Our forebears executed adulterers too, but not to punish them. They did because they had to protect the tribe from the errs of nature, so to speak, and remove them before they contaminated the rest of the society. Yes, they did because their moral dictated this.

Birds do the same to their offspring, if there is soemthing wrong with them; they push them out of their nests, to their certain death on the ground below. To ‘punish’ them? Certainly not; that’s a Judeo-Christian term.

Oh, and yes, atheism is a Jewish invention, because it is just another expression of their nihilism.

Here is a post about atheist humanism, by the way;http://thuleanperspective.com/2013/05/29/made-in-judea/

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 21/06/2013 at 10:39 Reply
Of course the DNA is transmitted from parents to their offspring, but this DNA does not contain morals. The mind of the parents and the culture in the environment surrounding the offspring is containing the morals that this baby later will “make it’s own”.

I also have to say that the tribe isn’t so important anymore, and the society has changed a lot (Maybe not to the better on some areas, but on most areas to the better).

I can’t comprehend why race hygiene is so important, we are all Homo Sapiens. Even though the tribes back in the days wanted to maintain a clear line of how the people in the tribe should look and behave, doesn’t mean that it is important now. I think that the murder of homosexuals, adulterers and others who wasn’t “moral” enough for the tribe is simply brutal. Why couldn’t they just kick them out of the tribe instead of killing them? Shouldn’t that be enough to maintain the “purity” of the tribe. I also see these murders as scaremongering to prevent others in the tribe to do the same thing, and therefore make them believe that these actions are immoral.

Once again I have to say that atheism is far from nihilism, and why should the Jews (who believe in a God) promote not believing in a God?

Varg Vikernes 21/06/2013 at 11:20 Reply
Actually, even what you say about Homo sapiens is wrong:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO1CwnIsC00

Yes, DNA includes coding for our values, personalities and morals.

You should read the new post. It will teach you a few things about the Jews;http://thuleanperspective.com/2013/06/21/why-nations-rot-from-within/

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 21/06/2013 at 17:22
Yes, we are descented from the neandertals, but the neandertals doesn’t exist anymore. We simply evolved to become Homo Sapiens. Every human being on earth is a Homo Sapiens (The thinking human) regardless of skincolour, gender, sexuality et.c.

I still stand strong on the fact that DNA doesn’t contain morals or values. The morals and values that we have, and also our personality, is affected by culture and especially our parents (who usually is the persons we first see when we are being born, and who follow us trough our childhood. Also a small child is very easy to affect with morals and values – They simply haven’t come far enough in the development of the brain to know what is right and wrong). DNA can some ways include a persons personality (different types of syndromes, For example aspergers or autism, which is caused by a mutation in the DNA).

I read the article, but I still can’t comprehend what “everybody” has against them. It’s just a bunch of quotes saying how much damage the Jews have done to the world… Do you believe that the holocaust ever happened?

Varg Vikernes 21/06/2013 at 17:34
We are 99.7% Neanderthal and 0.3% Homo sapiens, while e. g. many Negores are 100% Homo sapiens, and you still think we are “all the same”?

Do you believe in the Holocaust? If so, what do you really know about this? Have you e. g. seen this film;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo16uWyQhhs?

Galloglach 21/06/2013 at 18:08
…I don’t think this is the place for you to be, Ane Torine. Just saying.

White Guard 21/06/2013 at 18:55
Ane, if I may: why are you on Thulean Perspective? What is your purpose, please?

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 20/06/2013 at 16:38 Reply
I agree Some good opinions there Ytringer

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 22/06/2013 at 09:08 Reply
I wasn’t able to reply in the right place because there was no reply button…
Anyway this is a reply to Varg on his post: “We are 99.7% Neanderthal and 0.3% Homo sapiens, while e. g. many Negores are 100% Homo sapiens, and you still think we are “all the same”?

Do you believe in the Holocaust? If so, what do you really know about this? Have you e. g. seen this film;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo16uWyQhhs?”

Actually humans and chimpanzees have 95% of the DNA sequence in common, and 99% of coding DNA sequences are in common. So what do this say abou humans? That we are apes? Not really…

I watched the video and I think it’s just another propaganda-video. I have myself been to the museums of Auschwitz, Auschwitz 2, Sachsenhausen, Bikenau and Ravensbrück, and I must say that the evidence presented there speaks or itself. It’s just plain ignorant to deny that the Holocaust ever happened. How could they manipulate the pictures of emaciated dead humans in mass graves in 1940-45? Tell me what are these camps if they were not used as concentrationcamps? What about all the survivors that have a story to tell from the time they were in these camps.
I have myself listened to one of these survivors and I believe him and all the oblious evidence…

Christophe 22/06/2013 at 11:55 Reply
” Tell me what are these camps if they were not used as concentrationcamps?”

Well, here is the true answer : To concentrate.

PROOF :http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/5/50/JewJuice.jpg

White Guard 22/06/2013 at 12:03 Reply
Ane, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcHni-Im1lw&bpctr=1371904366

Ytringer 22/06/2013 at 13:02 Reply
You should really look into the Holocaust- myth more Ane.
Google David Cole, as a starter.
You will be amazed by the lies we have been fed.

sigebrand 22/06/2013 at 13:45 Reply
David Cole’s a Jew, he also took back his claims out of cowardice after he was bullied and rejected so much by the Jewish community….I feel for him in a way, I think he was genuine enough (as few self loathing Jews are, apart from Bobby Fischer).

Better to start with Ernst Zundel and David Irving.

Ytringer 22/06/2013 at 14:16
They are great too.
But, in case Cole really took it back, it was due to threats to his life by JEWS.
One Rabbi however, today is sorry he didn’t take it back. And says that Cole no longer can blame his treason on his youth at that time.

Varg Vikernes 22/06/2013 at 14:40 Reply
I am not going to spend much time on answering you, but I can tell a few things; did you know that all the shoes that you saw in the Auschwitz museum were collected from civilian Germans in the area after the war? So they lied to you… about that and about everything else to. You are a fool to believe in them. You buy all their bullshit, and yet your have the nerve to call the video I linked to a “propaganda video”? You are aware that their lies are idiotic, right? With doors in “gass chambers” opening inwards and stuff like that. And the truth presented to you in this “propaganda” video is very intelligent? Why not try to believe in what makes sense, instead of believing in what makes no sense whatsoever, onlt because the latter is the official propaganda.

You don’t understand that having 99.7% Neanderthal DNA makes us more Neanderthal than Homo sapiens? *sigh* Sure, we have 95% of our genes in common with chimps too, and around 40% with water melons, but that is completely irrelevant. The point is that of the last 5% of our genes is what makes us human, and that codes for everything that we have different from chimps and water melons and all other things. So when of these 5% on average 4.7% of them are from Neanderthals and only 0.3% from Homo sapiens, that means EVERYTHING. Negroes have 5% of these genes from proto-Homo sapiens. We — Europeans — have on average 0.3% GET IT?

Good luck to you.

Galloglach 22/06/2013 at 14:51 Reply
This is really funny and ridiculous. It just takes a very short google search to find out who you are. I’ll post it here so Varg and everyone else can see it. From your twitter, I quote: “#Punk Rock #Atheist #Anti-theist #Bad Religion #Enviromentalist #Anarchist #Far-left-liberal #Straigt-Edge #Naturalist #Bibliophile #Prochoice #Feminist #LBGTQ”

and you come here trying to lecture about honor? about morals? about WHO WE ARE? to tell Varg that he’s wrong? Did you read the Tolerance post on this blog? please do.

No wonder you’re fucked up in your mind, with all those mash-up- shit salad of ideologies and even oxymoronic ones like extreme leftist + environmentalist and naturalist? LOL..please. If you REALLY, care about nature, and that’s is, the racial diversity of this planet, you should be defending your country from tens of thousands of mongrels with a lunatic, fanatic religion that they don’t give a SHIT ABOUT YOU. But I doubt you fucking do, like all COMMIE clowns out there.

Varg Vikernes 22/06/2013 at 14:58 Reply
So she is just an average brainwashed Norwegian. Lost cause.

Galloglach 22/06/2013 at 15:08
If that’s the average brainwashed norwegian…I don’t even want to imagine what’s a real militant, leftist brianwashed drone there then…

No wonder why Europe is in such precarious and pathetic condition…with PEOPLE like those, they will SURELY will be wiped out from the face of the earth by the third world hordes. They are just a fucking BURDEN to us.

Nick Rossiter 25/06/2013 at 04:08
I know people exactly like her in real life… she needs to leave lol

Christophe 22/06/2013 at 23:50 Reply
Indeed, she has the complete 17 years old rebellion package. I have just no patience for such kind, and I will stay polite, my city is just so full of this decadence.

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 17:21 Reply
The problem here is that neither you nor Ane seem to understand the definition of a European deity here, nor it’s implications.

Further, what you advocate in this comment is not just nihilism, but to a large extent it is indeed nihilism, because you reject the idea of a supernatural (i. e. here: super-instinctual) moral, embedded in our blood. From what you say honour has no meaning, neither in this life nor in the next. Honour is the very foundation of the European religion! See the post ‘Hamingja’.

You also seem to have a very individualistic view, apparently failing to understand that each and every individual is a part of something bigger than itself and that the bigger unities are often best represented by deities; a collective supernatural quality that stems from the blood of the group. Aye, by that I mean the common blood of the group — because they are in effect one large family.

In a multi-cultural society this is impossible, because there is no unity on basically any level, because of the huge differences in the DNA of the individuals in that society, but in a homogeneous tribal society this is not only perfectly possible, but an ideal.

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 20/06/2013 at 17:52 Reply
I understand that the european deities don’t exist, but rather is personifications of the people that believed in these deities. The gods reflected the perons and the peoples personality and their culture

I don’t think morals is embedded in our blood like an instinct, they are embedded by our culture (we are affected by the people around us). So if we move to another part of the world we may face great obstacles if we don’t adapt to the morals they have there. Still I can agree to some extent that the morals is embedded in our blood if you look at it in this way: We are affected by the culture, i.e. we embed this morals to our offspring.

I also believe in Honour (Æra, Ære), if you believe that this is the impression people got of you, what you achieved in life, and what people can remember you for. Not like a supernatural soul, more like the “manns minne”.

A long time ago it was very important to live in groups in order to collect food, survive against wild animals et.c, but now we tend to not live in groups or families like we did before. I don’t see anything wrong about that some people choose to live this way, most of them are actually happy that way.

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 18:03 Reply
The culture is a result of our blood, so what is the difference?

Life in the past 10.000 years or so was much easier than it is today. Talking a walk in any town with traffic is much more dangerous than it was to live in the wilds since the end of the last great Ice Age. Wolves are scared of men. Bears too. The lynx will not ever show itself, because it si so afraid. And, if any of these animals should decide to attack, man has soemthing called a spear, and will easily defend himself. If not he has fire to scare away wild animals.

Further, predators don’t normally hunt for other predators. In they did they would go extinct very soon. They hunt for prey, not other predators. Man is a predator.

Man never needed the protection from wils animals, with one exception; pregnant women. Small children were perfectly safe with their parents, and often alone too — because they smell liek humans…

The average work day to survive;
Stone Age; 30 minutes each day
Bronze Age; 2 hours each day
Iron Age and Middle Ages; 4 hours each day
Modern times; at least 8 hours just to earn a living, and then maybe 2-6 hours to clean the house, make food and so forth.

So, it’s the other way aroudn. Life was much easier in the past.

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 21/06/2013 at 10:43 Reply
This is also a result of the massive population growth.

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 22:45 Reply
Here you are in my opinion contradicting yourself. You say first that your brain and reasoning can tell you what is right, and now you say that your parents or the community should tell you.
We are of course also influenced by society, but I can assure you that if you ended up adopted by these baboons, you would definitely feel something was not right.
No matter what you learned in the hut, from your black foster-family:

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 23:00 Reply
To whom is this supposed to be a reply?

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 23:05
To Ane.
http://thuleanperspective.com/2013/06/19/european-religion-versus-atheism/comment-page-1/#comment-34576

Did I mess up again?

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 21/06/2013 at 10:48 Reply
I’m not saying that the society and your parents SHOULD tell you, but most people get their morals from their parents (sometimes unfortunately).

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 20/06/2013 at 16:23 Reply
I actually read that article before I read this one But anyways I don’t think that stoning homosexuals, sabbat breakers and adulterers is moral. But all of these kinds of punishments is mentioned in the bible. Can you mention some of the European morals that is mentioned in the bible? I’m curious

And last I want to say that Atheism is not something that is created, at least not by Jews. Atheism is the position that every newborn baby have before they are starting to get bombarded by lies. I actually quoted you here to Anyway, I think that it’s crucially important to know about our history too, and learning where religions originated is very interesting and important to know in order to understand why we are the people that we are.

White Guard 20/06/2013 at 16:34 Reply
The New Testament is more Pagan, the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) are completely Jewish.

White Guard 20/06/2013 at 16:38 Reply
What I should have said is that Traditionalist Catholic and Orthodox teaching based upon the New Testament are more Pagan than all the Old Testament. The OT is basically a justification for Jewish supremacism, and the Talmud is the how-to achieve supremacy.

Nick Rossiter 25/06/2013 at 04:13 Reply
I just don’t understand why your here… like i said before I know plenty of people like you in real life. Your statements make clear you don’t understand anything that we stand for.

SvanfortS 20/06/2013 at 18:53 Reply
But bible also has so many negative morals like “kill the heretics” (heretics could be pagans). Bible also has lots of other anti-pagan morals and laws like “you have to believe in Jahve”, bible describes pagan deities as devils and evil creatures. Bible has lots of anti-racist (or anti-white) laws and morals like “We are all gods children, we are all equal” et cetera.

Does atheism hold any morals like that?

Mikjáll 20/06/2013 at 14:05 Reply
No, it’s not better. What if someone chooses their own morals, morals which happen to include excessive drinking, drugs and having sex with everything that moves (like many atheists/nihilists among the “metal scene” have done)? And might I add, choosing that lifestyle is about as far from free thinking as you can get. It’s nothing more than following one of the many destructive paths set out for you by Jews. Being herded into a dead-end pen like sheep.

As Varg stated, the bible contains European morals. It still has Jewish shit in amongst it but there are some good morals there. Not all Christians pay any heed the good morals, but there you have it. By the way, I don’t see what the *age* of the bible has to do with anything. The European traditions are ancient, does that invalidate them, too?

Nihilists (and by equation, atheists) are much more than a bit individualistic. They’re concerned only with what suits THEM and only them the best. Their pathetic passivity and insulting disregard for the fact that you have to do what’s right by your race and your kin are one the reasons we’re in this mess and also one of the reasons we’re having trouble getting out of it.

Mikjáll 20/06/2013 at 14:11 Reply
And might I add, any European man worth his salt who could think freely would choose to live by European pagan virtues anyway, because they’re in his very blood.

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 15:34 Reply
No, it’s not better. What if someone chooses their own morals, morals which happen to include excessive drinking, drugs and having sex with everything that moves (like many atheists/nihilists among the “metal scene” have done)?

Such behavior will in the short run give few and weak offspring, and in the long run not survive at all. Especially in a tough environment like the European.

Your last paragraph is a bit too collective-minded to me. One doesn’t make kids or any other thing one do, for the tribe.
It’s in your own interest to behave in the interest of the tribe you live in. And if everyone could understand that it is in their own interest to have kids, and invest in them to make them fit the other members of the tribe they will be living in, this egocentrisism, I understand that you are blaming, would also be in the interest of the kin, the tribe, and the race.

Individual freedom is a key ingredient in the Norse/Germanic way of life. You are free to do what is good for you and the society/the tribe, or free to be behave like an asshole and leave the tribe, whether it will be you personally or your weak offspring that eventually dies out and leaves.
This is why we need to restore the Norse/Germaic/European way of life, or view on life. If everyone did what ultimately serves themselves the best in the long run, i.e. reproduce and live in peace, the tribe and the race would be fine too.

This is why the true meaning of the symbolism of Irminsul is suppressed. And why the tree of life, Irminsul, the womb, is misinterpreted by the jews/Christianity to be about wisdom instead of fertility.
And this is why Irminsul already in the 12th century had to bend down for the church.
http://ravnagaldr.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/irminsul-bending.jpg?w=400&h=300

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 17:30 Reply
What makes you think there has ever been a ‘fertility’ cult in Europe? Why would they have such a cult? Did they have obesity problems or anorexia, making them infertile or even sterile? Did they eat food with so many preservatives and such that they became less fertile? Did they have any fertility problems whatsoever, or any needs for a fertility cult whatsoever? The answer is no.

The World Tree is almost (;-) ) a picture of the womb yes, but rest of what you say is simply not correct, and your assumptions are based on the work of Christians and Jews, who present this ludicrous ‘fertility cult’ hypothesis to make our forebears look like stupid and ignorant savages. They were not.

Ytringer 20/06/2013 at 18:34 Reply
Reproduction is not at all stupid and ignorant. As I am sure you agree too.

The world tree, as depicted PC, is a green ash in some christian theologians and christian professors and artists imagination, like the physical center of the world.

You among very few understood that it may be a womb and more to it than that, yet still you don’t let thsi fully sink in.

I am clumsy with words, and things I write, are sometimes to be misunderstood as they come out to “square”. I hope you keep this in mind and read everything in the best meaning.

And some say Irminsul was only a pole keeping the sky from falling in the head of stupid Germanians.

They could not be more wrong. It is much more. And the Germanic, people btw were never stupid.

Even though people like to have sex, naturally, the jotnar find more and more ways to pervert our sexlife,and mislead us, just open a newspaper.

The point of Odin, was not the sex, but its fruits. As you are well aware of, there is a race, among the races, to survive and have a territory.

This is why the jews in their Torah, our O.T sadly. is stressing and stressing that “you shall be plentiful”.

They knew it, as they still do, but we are brainwashed to the point that we have forgotten the importance of this understanding. To be plentiful.

To keep a territory, and a community worth living in, you need men of your kin. And to get men, and a kin, you need for you and your brothers and sisters to reproduce.

This is why I believe this is not a new understanding, even though we lately suddenly found ourselves waking up to the threat of our own extinction, and just are re-discovering this ancient, not to say eternal, truth.

Today, seeing how easily the marxists have made our women servants of the state and forgetting their(our) responsibility to bear children, I don’t find it difficult to see that smart people 2000++++ years ago saw this coming.

After all jotnar and their hate against us is not new. Our struggle with the jews is, as we know, eternal.
There may also have been other attacks on our culture and kin, before we “lost” for Christianity, that made Germanians also stress the importance of rebirth, through symbols like Irminsul and stories like Fjolsvinnsmål.

After all: The biggest mystery in life is reproduction, and the tree of life, which no-one, still, knows where its roots are “coming from”.
It would be strange if this was not reckoned/refelcted in Norse/Germanic culture.

As we say in Norway, kind of:
“it’s to late to clean your nose, when the nose is gone”
This is why our forefathers, like all healthy cultures stressed reproduction. They were in advance.
And we today, sadly, as we can see, are lagging, critically. Due to brainwashing, and suppression of the ultimate and eternal truth.

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 18:55 Reply
*Sigh*

Did I ever in any way suggest that reproduction was stupid and ignorant? I speak about the never-existing fertility cult, and I said that they didn’t need it — they reproduced just fine without it. Knocking women up was the easiest thing in the world! It still is, for those who are not mongrelized, obese or in other ways unhealthy. I have 4 children myself, and another 1 coming. Making them was the easiest thing in the world. (‘Growing them’ and giving birth to them on the other hand is not that easy, according to my wife…)

Why do you refer to non-Europeans as ‘jotnar’? Please read this post.

I know more about the European world tree and what it is than you can imagine, but my wife is going to write about this, and I will not spoil her discoveries.

Ôðinn is the same as Hermes, the god who escorts the dead to the realm of the dead, and the Ôðinn you think you know was not even Ôðinn. Almost all the myths about Ôðinn are not actually about him, but about someone who impersonates him; who dress up like him and uses his name to gain access to the realm of the dead! You would do well reading ‘Sorcery and Religion in Ancient Scandinavia‘.

You can read about the roots and where they come from here.

You will is good though, and I salute you for that. You are right. Our women have been ‘ruined’ by feminism. That you can read about here.

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 20/06/2013 at 16:32 Reply
Personally I am an atheist, but I keep a distance from alchohol, drugs and tobacco (I might drink a cup of coffee from time to time). My friends don’t have the same perspective on this and you could say that they are have a completely opposite stance on this. So the point is that even if you are an atheist and lurks around in enviroments that use drugs, drinks a lot and smoke all the time, you can choose to keep a distance to it Even if you are an atheist that choose your morals based on what you think is right.

I don’t know what the Jews have to do with this? It seems like they are mentioned negatively in every post and like half of the comments here If you think about it you should know that the Norse culture drank a lot of alchohol (Mjod).

The age of the bible have something to do with this because the culture and the society has changed a lot in 2000 years.

I don’t think that what you state in the last paragraph is something that most atheists can realte to.

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 17:46 Reply
Now you are just being short-sighted, and –sorry to say — plain ignorant. What on Earth makes you think drinking alcohol is immoral? Why would it be? I argue for the moral of Europe. If you want to talk about the bible find some Christians. I have no interest in it beyond the fact that there is some European moral i it. What you refer to dosn’t even have anything to do with moral.

Alcohol has been used in Europe for ages, first and foremost in a religious context. E. g. they mixed morning dew drops from the grass under the world tree and mixed it into the mead, and when they drank it the were elevated to the divine, and had a spiritual experience from this.

sigebrand 20/06/2013 at 17:50 Reply
You have spoken against alcohol quite a bit yourself, though….Of course I am assuming you refer mainly to the modern problems that come with it, but how do you draw the line personally between good and bad alcohol, and what do you drink if any?

I myself stick primarily do ale, cider and (normally red) wine. I have a soft spot for some spirits too, but obviously they are not healthy at all, certainly not drunk on a regular basis…

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 17:54 Reply
No, I have spoken against the misuse of alcohol. Big difference;

I also speak against the misuse of water. That too can be harmful if you drink too much.

I speak for moderation. Personally I don’t drink at all.

sigebrand 20/06/2013 at 17:58 Reply
yes that’s a good point…”doctors” instead we “should” drink 8-9 pints glasses of water a day…I rarely drink even half that much, and don’t feel dehydrated….we only need to keep drinking water when it’s really hot, the rest of the time we get quite a lot of hydration from food anyway…

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 20/06/2013 at 18:00 Reply
I’m not saying that alchohol is immoral, I’m just saying that I as an atheist don’t drink it, and even if you choose your own morals you don’t have to choose excessive drinking, drugs and so on. I’m refering to the statement:

“What if someone chooses their own morals, morals which happen to include excessive drinking, drugs and having sex with everything that moves (like many atheists/nihilists among the “metal scene” have done)?”

sigebrand 20/06/2013 at 18:07 Reply
This to me sounds dangerously close to the anarcho-punk “straight edge” attitude – “no gods, no masters” etc., it’s not about believing in the existence of a bunch of scary bearded men up in the clouds, it’s about understanding what a god really means, then they are real and you can believe in them. Not believing in gods means not believing in anything, and not believing in anything means you cannot grasp morals. Atheism has nothing to do with morals, this “straight edge” lifestyle and avoidance of drugs, tobacco (great), alcohol and even meat (not so great) is just another self righteous punk (i.e. Jewish) scam to kill pleasure, to control people, to make life miserable and meaningless…

It is about moderation. Stupid alcoholics lack moderation because they are atheists, or behave like atheists.

Ane Torine Dawkined Myrhaug 21/06/2013 at 11:04 Reply
Actually you are totally right in your first sentence… But not believing in a all-knowing creature that made the heaven and the earth does not make me immoral. I still believe in something: Evolution for example. And I have faith in myself and my fellow men and women For me, not drinking alcohol is a great relief from the society I live in where you are almost “forced” to drink alcohol every weekend and go to parties you don’t even remember the day after. I guess vegetarians and vegans don’t eat meat and products that come from animals because they want an end to the animals suffering just to make meat and milk to us (at least in the big industry). This usually isn’t the case on small farms, but there are countless examples of terrible conditions on big industry-farms. I’m not a vegan, simply because I think meat is good to eat in addition to being a good source of proteins and minerals (of course you can eat other food that can to some extent replace meat).

At last, straight edge is in no way founded by Jews to kill pleasure and to control people. It all strated when the punk-band Minor Threat released a song called straight edge in the 1980′s. People later “misunderstood” this to be some kind of movement, and it also turned out to become that.

sigebrand 21/06/2013 at 11:20
But that’s not my point, this isn’t about creationism, you really need to learn to distinguish properly between the Jewish notion of “gods” and our understanding of gods, when you do you you will realise you are not an atheist. Atheism is exactly the same as nhilism – it is belief in nothing.

I was vegan for quite some time, for the right reasons and I know some are for the right reasons (like some musicians I respect for example, though most vegan musicians are anarcho-punk idiots), but I always felt out of place, because most are arseholes just doing it for the image and feeling of self-righteousness and superiority, I always avoided joining in with any vegan groups or societies and lame “vegan restaurants”. I felt awkward and rude myself making demands for this and that….

the point is that straight edge is a movement, regardless of whether minor threat intended it to be. It’s one of these bogus, totally unnecessary Jewish fads, like any “healthy” extreme diet…any kind of abstinence is for weak people incapable of discipline or moderation, which I am sure you are more than capable of…

Varg Vikernes 21/06/2013 at 11:24
Evolution is also just another religion, based not on evidence, but on faith. See here;http://thuleanperspective.com/2013/05/09/eternity/

Related post; http://thuleanperspective.com/2013/01/14/from-evolution-to-revolution/

Varg Vikernes 20/06/2013 at 18:17 Reply
Yes, well that statement was not by me.

Excessive drinking is not a moral issue. It’s a character issue. Those with a weak character will drink too much. It has nothing whatsoever to do with moral.

Mikjáll 20/06/2013 at 18:08 Reply
I see you’re not familiar with Jews and their work. I suggest having a look at the “Links” section here on AncestralCult.com, namely look at the “History” and Political Links” section.

Aye, such behaviour would ultimately mean the successors of the lineage would be weak and stupid and would die out… but only in a hard, fair and tribal environment. Europe is (unfortunately) none of these things today. Today, weakness and stupidity is actively cultivated and these people are allowed to survive because of societal and technological conveniences.

Ensuring the sustained survival of the tribe IS in an individuals interest (as well as the tribes), aye, but to say that an individual should serve just his OWN long-term interests based on that fact is quite short-sighted.

As far as I’m aware, alcohol in Norse culture was used ceremonially. I won’t say anything further on that since I really don’t know much about alcohol use at that period. Fact of the matter is, though, it wasn’t the intentions of the Norsefolk to go out every Saturday night to get pissed.

Frankly, I don’t see why you would choose to put yourself in an environment where drug and alcohol abuse are the norm, even if you’re willful enough not to partake. There were a few people I spent my days with (I would hardly call them friends) in school who eventually turned to that kind of attitude, so I ditched the lot of them.

The fact is, whether you choose to partake or not, atheism/nihilism assures you that you CAN do that and experience no negative repercussions whatsoever and so are philosophies that need to be expunged from Europe. In my opinion, the fact that not all atheists behave this way is just a fortunate oddity.

Mikjáll 20/06/2013 at 22:02 Reply
Appears I got a bit mixed up here:

The second and third paragraphs of this comment (the one I’m replying to) were intended as a reply for one of Ytringer’s comments. The rest are fine where they are.

Sorry for any confusion.

Galloglach 20/06/2013 at 22:12 Reply
Couldn’t agree more with this. Well put Mikjáll. Society today, is nihilist and atheist to a great extent, the “live and let live”, “you only live once aka YOLO” “carpe diem” etc. virus infected people.